@arise77

It is because "we are all here for the girls" that I felt it necessary to point out the similarity of the two forms of exploitation of weaknesses. We are a self selecting group that are almost certainly very biased towards accepting one form. If you looked at a population of users of betting shops, attendees at horse races or those that frequent casinos you would probably encounter the opposite bias.

Totem is perfectly aware of the controversy, so anyone's posts about "informing" them that they're "alienating loyal customers" is no news to them. They know, they have discussed that, they have made their decisions. They either react upon the complaints or they don't.

And that will not stop me and others from keeping it up to date here, so that they are and remain aware of this home-made splitting of customers.

@SetFuego

And that's perfectly fine! I applaud you all for that. I just think that if they have not reacted by now, after all the complaints for last months or even years, they more than likely won't react to all that later either... :(

... after all the complaints for last months or even years, they more than likely won't react to all that later either... :(

@Dfner - And that's why I hope that the people in charge get a bad feeling every time they read this. First and foremost I condemn the decision to increase the number of SEC's in this way, but these cards can only be obtained by direct gambling or by using jokers (also gambling). 😠

@TheEmu I see what you mean, but come on... we're all here for the girls, no doubt about that. Did we sign up for gambling? Not really 😜

A long time ago, my nephew asked me why I would go to Las Vegas. I replied "hookers and booze!" we all laughed.

Then my brother started mentioning other things to do in vegas... and as he listed other things I added "and it's even better with .... Hookers and booze!"

gambling...

sitting pool side....

golf...

fancy dinner...



"we are all here for the girls" (and I do love my beer!)

@Dfner
First things First, the Team is aware of this Topic, and they reacted already on March the 20th.

https://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/44343/1#post655383

Everything about iStripper / Scratch game complaints

Hi The scratch card price doesn't take in account your VIP status. For many members, this is very advantageous, even with 720P card. The gains are calculated so the cards cost cheaper than if you boug...

@SetFuego

And that will not stop me and others from keeping it up to date here

And that's why I hope that the people in charge get a bad feeling every time they read this.

At this Point, this is the first Time, where you are ***** about this situation here,

https://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/44343/7?post=667042

Everything about iStripper / Scratch game complaints

Totem is perfectly aware of the controversy, so anyone's posts about "informing" them that they're "alienating loyal customers" is no news to them. They know, they have discussed that, they have made...

and i dont see any other Post in a similar Form in the whole Topic so far, Hmmm ... Strange.
And you said by yourself,

And that will not stop me,

in your first Post here, where you are really Complainig in the whole Topic .... ?
But i didn't see another similar Post in the whole Topic before.
And further,

First and foremost I condemn the decision to increase the number of SEC's in this way, but these cards can only be obtained by direct gambling or by using jokers (also gambling). 😠

but on the other side, you took by yourself Advantage of one of these Gambling Games to Win an SEC Card?

https://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/44343/6#post662374

Everything about iStripper / Scratch game complaints

but I really want the Stacy Cruz SEC Yeah, that can be a hard candy... Sorry, I couldn't resist, I got it yesterday. 😛 https://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/44085/8?post=662137

The only thing i can really see here, are Accusations from your side.

https://www.istripper.com/forum/thread/44343/3#post655798

Everything about iStripper / Scratch game complaints

) can you log a ticket with the support @Alkasyn - the support is ... @Manue and therefore the support already has all the details. What gives me much more to think about is that 'the support' obvious...

But that's only my own perception, maybe i'm wrong ... who knows.

28 scratch cards, 75 net credits spent.. "won" five cards none of which were interesting (all but one 720P).

Totem had a scratch game...I believe it was last Thanksgiving...where one would be guaranteed a Joker or SEC card if one played a certain number of games (I think the Joker came in at 100 scratches) That feature would be good for Totem and the membership as well.

I wish that the gambling aspect of iStripper would decrease but I think that is very unlikely to occur unless there are changes in the applicable laws.

That is fine but I will call a spade a spade. There is a huge push to end ***** practices by companies regarding gambling that today bypass legal requirements that typically are enforced on gambling.

As an example in the US there is no warnings or such regarding nudity other than being 18+. On the flipside there are tons of requirements regarding gambling it just happens right now gamibling for digital goods does not fall under legal requirements (not yet but likely will in the future).

Totem had a scratch game...I believe it was last Thanksgiving...where one would be guaranteed a Joker or SEC card if one played a certain number of games (I think the Joker came in at 100 scratches) That feature would be good for Totem and the membership as well.

See I think this would balance out things with a fixed odds.

I think in order the best case to worst case would be:
Fixed results after so many scratches
Low luck modifier that slowly increases your chance at certain outcomes
Transparent odds

Maybe they are there but right now in theory Totem can choose to completely change odds by the minute in order to have early winners get others to also participate when odds are lower. Not saying this is happening just saying with the current system nothing is stopping them from doing this.

I do think though the previous scratch game I had played was good when first starting as it gave you lots of random cards prior to getting the bonus discounts that I now have access to.

My dear @Stanston, it seems you have a problem. But I will not go into it any further and I will certainly not pick out all posts from me in the last months especially for you. That would be really too stupid for me.

gambling that today bypass legal requirements...
there are tons of requirements regarding gambling...

It has to be pointed - again - that on Istripper we don't gamble with real money, so there is no real gamble and also nothing out of any rule.
ONLY real transaction here on Istripper takes place when we purchase credits. Anything we do then with our credits is - from the company's economical point of view - purely fictional. Credits are a fiction: they are not money, and can never be converted back into money.
If you play a gambling game here, your credit win (or loss) has not any economical effect of any sort towards Totem, since credits are a pure fiction created by company. They may have a value for us - since we make use them in order to acquire cards - but for the company they economically mean absolutely nothing.
If I lose 500 credits while gambling here, I am not giving to the company any real economic advantage whatsoever. It gets probable, though, that I will purchase some more credits sooner or later, and that will be the only time in which I'll give a real economical benefit to Totem.

@HansSachs
If I buy 500 credits at $49.99 and gamble it a way, Totem just made $49.99 for I
have no credits to buy cards.
But if I use the 500 credits to gamble and win 1,500 credits above the 500 I
started with and use the 1,500 to buy 136 cards at 11 credits each who wins
and who loses ?

If I buy 500 credits at $49.99 and gamble it a way, Totem just made $49.99 for I
have no credits to buy cards.
But if I use the 500 credits to gamble and win 1,500 credits above the 500 I
started with and use the 1,500 to buy 136 cards at 11 credits each who wins
and who loses ?

In short: Totem has earned $ 49.99 in both cases (and this is, of course, only thing that matters from their point of view).

Wins and losses are only on our side, on our capacity to get cards.

Let's say it again, a card is not really "sold", it's exchanged for totally fictional entities called "credits" which Totem Team create to their liking (and they even have different prices depending on how many of them you buy).
They are a pure fiction, since they don't have any real economical value (you can not give them to anyone apart using them here, and of course no store on Earth would ever accept Istripper credits as payment); and since they are not convertible in any way back into money, also.

That means, only things really making difference for Totem are your credit purchases. What you do then with your credits doesn't really change anything economically on their side.

When on Istripper you acquire a card, or you gamble, you are really not giving anything to company - you did make your only real transaction with them earlier, when you did purchase credits.

Ok, so it looks like that Totem gave me 136 cards because they like me for
I did not pay $150.00 for 1,500 credits, I paid $49.99 for the 500 credits I
started with and still have after using the 1,500 credits. Their is always a
winner and a losser when you gamble.

By the way the post on the 1,500 credits was a what if it happend. I get it
some people don't like to gamble and some do. As you can see I have all
the cards and I still gamble for credits as alot on here do.

@BushViper357

I think the point is that iStripper credits have no monetary value. This is made explicit in the licence that we all agreed to which says (in one of a few sections that are in uppercase)

YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT THE CREDIT SYSTEM HAVE NO MONETARY VALUE AND CANNOT BE REDEEMED FOR CASH. NO REFUNDS WILL BE MADE FOR THE PURCHASE OF CREDITS.

In this credits are unlike casino chips. So when you gamble for credits any wins or losses you make also have no monetary value - despite what you or I may feel that they are worth.

😫

barney remembering the u.s. constitution!

awesome

@TheEmu,
I understand the credits have no value. You wood agree I think if you did not
win the 1,500 credits to get the 136 cards, then to get the 136 I would have
had to spend $150.00 to get the same cards ?

@BushViper357

Yes, that is what I meant by what you or I feel about the matter. But @HansSachs 's point, that you were responding to, and that I was elaborating on, was that no matter what we feel we have agreed that there is no monetary value involved.

Now I regard this as a rather dubious argument in the "real world", but I would not be at all surprised if it makes a huge difference legally if it changes a gambling game from playing for money to the legal equivalent of playing for matchsticks.

@TheEmu,
I agree with that. thanks for the rely.
Have a great day and stay safe.

Another example.
If...

• First user spent 500 credits in gamble and he won nothing.
• Second user spent 4500 credits in gamble and he won 17000 credits of the Mega Jackpot.

Which is the user who created more revenues for the company?
Second one.
The first one - indeed - did spend only 50 $ on software, the second one as much as 900 $. And this is ONLY thing that matters for the company. As credits have NO monetary value, Totem can create them out of nothing; and so, giving prizes whatsoever (both as cards or as credits) has NO cost for them.

Card acquisitions, gamble prizes/losses, etc. are fictional, and mean nothing about company's economical benefit.

If you think about it, all "Istripper world", with its cards acquisitions and its gambling games, is sort of a big videogame whose goal is just getting us make as many credits purchases as possible (which are only real money transactions here, and which pay for all Totem's employees, photographers and models).
And on this aspect, they win easily - since, as @TheEmu pointed some days ago, we are all *****: to beautiful women &/or to gamble...

A few years ago, Disneyland began offering disney dollars. The money could be used in the park to buys toys, food, etc. . Why does this matter? Somve tourists spent all every dollar. some tourists left the park with dollars. It might be a mistake, it might be a souvener. Either way it is a the benefit to the company.

Totem has some members spend every credit. Some members quit before they use all the credits. Either way it is a benefit to the company.

No, the second person was more than likely save them for somw thing else & made out 3.777repeating on his /her investment. so, the first person lost his/her investment of 500 credits which cost him 49.99 or 99.98 with bonus, althou again what you do with your credits is for you to descide

I was indeed talking just about company's economical point of view, not about what we can do with our wins and losses on Istripper gamble. My point was that such wins and losses make difference for us, but not for the company's revenues.

@HansSachs,
I know credits have no monetary value. So if I want to get a card I have to
have credits, right? and to get credits I have to buy them, right ? so I want
to get 136 cards at 11 credits each I would have to spend $150.00 to get
1,500 credits, right ? Now what I am saying is if I win 1,500 credits then
I save a $150.00, right ? Does my math make sense or am I missing something.

Now what I am saying is if I win 1,500 credits then
I save a $150.00, right ?

From your point of view yes, but the company sells credits, not cards - so they have not any economical loss by your win. You are instead more likely to become an happy customer, and so be going to buy even more credits from them in the future rather than the opposite... let's say they take the risk.

@HansSachs,
Thanks for the reply, we all have our on view on things and at this point I
think we both can agree to agree.
Have a great day and stay safe.

I think that like most companies Totem cares about annual revenue and whether it is increasing or decreasing. The fact that we buy credits to get cards and play games is irrelevant. If there were no cards and games there would be no annual revenue. If the quality or quantity of cards were to decrease there would be less annual revenue. If Totem changes it's pricing structure annual revenue will change. Individual credit purchases by individuals is of little concern to Totem. It's the aggregate of all customer purchases that matter.

The notion that credits have no monitary value is a legal fiction. Credits have value to the purchaser in term of what they paid for them and what they can get with them. To me 10 credits is as valuable as a Hershey Bar.

Individual credit purchases by individuals is of little concern to Totem. It's the aggregate of all customer purchases that matter.

Which is at the end, indeed, an aggregate of credits purchases.

Credits have value to the purchaser

But they have not any value for Totem.

I don't mean to insult anyone here. Based on what I have read on this forum I am doubtful there are many gamers in the community. This discussion has been going on for years.

- that on Istripper we don't gamble with real money

This is an example of an incorrect statment. In casino when you go to a slot machine in many locations as soon as you enter your money in the machine its turned in to a "credit". The difference is you can choose to turn that credit in to another currency option (ie a Dollar or Euro). There are some locations that require casinos use real cash values instead of credits as well.

I was very clear that currently Totem is bypassing gambling regulation because you are never going to win currency you can turn in to Dollars or Euros and thus most legal requirements do not apply that does not mean its not gambling just that its not a legal definition to require a gaming commission oversight. Instead you are simply winning a currency that can be redeemed for digital goods (this is the loophole that people are pushing to be closed). In certain circumstances those digital goods can even be turned back in to standard currency (CounterStrike knives go for $$$) but since you are not directly winning something that has a specific cash value it still does not qualify for legal enforcement most places.

Gambling is the act of spending a small amount of currency and either getting a larger or smaller return by a system of chance. This is why Fantasy Football is not viewed as gambilng because it is based on a game of skill instead of game of chance (its also an argument used for making Texas Holdem legal as some people view it as skill instead of chance). The only difference is today the regulations are written based on a time before digital or other currencies it also has been overlooked since the governments are not getting a cut of your winnings like they do with casinos.

If Totem wants to do that, then that is fine they choose to take action and others can choose what to do. I am expressing a viewpoint that has been shaped over years of interaction of these types of systems. Some might not know but systems like this are actually becoming illegal in Belgium. So there will be a time in the future where this is not allowed with actual oversight. https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/25/17280440/belgium-video-game-loot-boxes-illegal-gambling

That is my only ask is that Totem be upfront about odds. People do not view this as a video game but I have to assume any new legal president would apply to all software not just those strictly viewed as traditional video games (since I would suspect Pokemon would be on their radar which in certain realms could be viewed as a collection software simliar to this with cards).